Ep.34 – Living on Purpose. Guest Amy Eliza Wong

@00:00 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Hey, hi Nathan.

@00:02 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Hi, how are you doing?

@00:04 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
I’m good. How are you?

@00:05 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Good, thanks. you you you you you you you you Amy Wong, welcome to Leading with Curiosity.

@11:48 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Thanks for having me, Nae. I’m happy to be here.

@11:51 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You know what, I’m when I was doing the research, getting ready for this interview, I kept seeing words that just really resonate with me personally, so my gut is telling me this is a a a a a a a
going to be a naturally following fun conversation for the two of us.

@12:04 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
And so I hope it is for the listeners as well. Yeah, I’m feeling it.

@12:08 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
When you think about your book, living on purpose, and when you think about talking about leadership and executive coaching, whose lives do you think will be impacted most?
Who are going to listen to this conversation today?

@12:24 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Yeah, great question. So the book really has been written for and who’s going to benefit from this conversation is the individual who really is committed to doing well in the world and whether that’s by an external standard, internal standard.
It’s that, you know, they’re relatively ambitious. They’re relatively committed. They do the work to to quote unquote thrive. And really who this book is written for is for all the folks that have done it, quote unquote, right?
And still feel totally unfulfilled. Or you can look at your life on paper and say, wow, I have no reason to be quote unquote unhappy, but yet there’s something missing.
And it’s definitely for the individual that recognizes it’s not going to be doing more of the same. I just don’t know what to do different.
And so who’s going to really benefit from our conversation today is the individual who feels that way. It’s like, gosh, I’m so close to genuine inner peace.
And I know I’m getting in my own way. I get that it’s not going to be a bigger title.
I get that it’s not going to be more money, even though I swear to God, my head is convincing me that’s the case.
I just don’t know what it is. And so that’s what I think people have to look forward to is what is that and how do we have to come back?

@13:51 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Oh, man, I’m glad I asked. Like ambitious people willing to do the work. OK, hit on listeners that you, right?
That’s cool. Tell me a bit more about the moment that you realize that it needed to be written.

@14:05 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Oh, you know, I’ve had there’s been some pivotal moments along the way. The first was around 2014. So I’ve been coaching.
I started coaching in 2010, founded my company in 2011, and just off I went. And, you know, and in the process of many, many, many, many, conversations and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots and lots of research.
I was starting to really discern, wow, there are some very universal themes in the ways in which we hold ourselves back.
And I was working through and very organically working through that process to help people through those inner blocks. Now my training, I, you know, traditionally have mathematician.
And so there’s a part of me that just hungers for logic and objectivity. And so for me to be able to discern the ways in which we navigate the world in a really objective, somewhat irrefutable way is is a super strength of violence.
So taking clients through a process that was really rather objective, yet really rather subjective because here we’re talking about transformation because my master’s is in transpersonal psychology, so we have to honor that.
I started to, I started very organically to take people through a bit of a process, which isn’t, it’s not super formulaic, but it’s a process and it was working Nate.
Oh my gosh, was it working? And it was tear jerkingly amazing. And it was around 2014, I was like, wow, I mean, I think, I think I’m really onto something.
I think, I think this, this needs to be available to folks. And then two more pivotal moments. The moment shortly after that, people were saying, is there a book on this?
Where can I read more about what we’re doing? And I’m like, that book doesn’t exist because this is a combination of many different practices and different disciplines and a lot of logic doesn’t exist.
And so then when people started asking me for a book, that’s when I was like, oh. Okay, I’m gonna have to do this.
And then here was the super pivotal moment. 2016, I’m getting certified for conversational intelligence. And oh boy, do I love to talk about this, the conversation about conversations.
And when I’m immersed in the neuroscience of communication and trust, when I learn about the neuroscience of rejection, it was as if the whole, like the top blew off.
And that was exactly the missing link I needed to make sense of everything that we were doing. So I’m like, that’s it, got it all.
And so at that point, I knew, I knew, I knew, I knew that this book would come to fruition.
I also knew it wasn’t time to write it and deepen my heart. So I am committed, I mean, almost hilariously so, I’m committed to only operate off inspiration.
And inspiration was saying, hold back, not yet. You still got case studies, you still got client conversations, you still got research to do.
And so, It wasn’t until 2019 that it just clicked and I’m like, oh, okay, now’s the time. Got to do it.
And then boom, it was almost effortless the way in which this thing just completely came through.

@17:13 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah. Ah, that’s a great story because you had all these successes, like these, these moments with clients and then they’re literally asking you, is there a book on this?
When if there’s, if there’s thought leaders, executive coaches, people in this leadership space, wondering what their book is going to be, having tons of success and then having people searching for something that, that in your opinion doesn’t exist out there is a, is a great combination.

@17:41 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Oh, I love that distinction.

@17:43 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yes.

@17:43 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Well said.

@17:46 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Five deliberate choices to realize fulfillment and joy. You’re subtitled. The, the words deliberate choice really caught my attention.

@17:54 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
What do you want to share about that? Yeah. It was so important to me to have deliberate in there.

@17:58 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
So important. Hmm.

@18:01 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
And you know what a lot of us don’t think about or talk about often is that the fact that we are a choice, oh my gosh, what a gift, what a privilege we have.
And to exercise choice really is a superpower. And when we truly want to thrive, all of us want to thrive, let’s just be clear.
I mean, nobody wants to be down in the dumps. And so we all have desires to feel good and to thrive.
And really it’s the sum total of our choices that dictate the quality of our life. What I mean by deliberate choice is it’s not choice at the level of action that’s really going to give you the most bang for your buck.
So for example, I’m going to choose a salad over this big fatty burrito for lunch. Right. Now that’s going to serve you sure.
Is that going to help? Absolutely. So we can make choices at the level of action that are going to contribute to a better life.
No doubt. But really where we start to make the. most profound shifts and free ourselves from false perception and free ourselves from unnecessary resistance in the ways in which we hold ourselves back is when we make choice at the level of perception.
And so when I say deliberate choice, it’s taking responsibility for the quality of our own life, recognizing that what I am choosing to perceive and thus interpret is giving rise to every aspect of my experience.
And so if I’m going to be deliberate in the way in which I show up and make choices on how I’m going to go forth and interpret and perceive in the mindsets I hold, then then then you got something going here.
And that’s that’s really what this is about. So deliberate is is kind of in that is that sense of responsibility and commitment that I believe is absolutely required if we truly want to claim the life we are born to live.

@19:52 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Wow. I heard you say right at the start of that. It’s a privilege and makes me feel like I don’t want to take that privilege.
And then I heard you say it’s a. Our life is just some total of the choices that we make and that and then you use the word responsibility.
I love breaking down that word. We have the ability to respond. And so we’re faced with. OK, that resonates.

@20:19 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Go. Like all my favorite quote of all time is Victor Frankles quote between stimulus and response there is space and in that space lies our ability to choose our response.
And in our choice lies our freedom and our growth. And that to me is. Oh, gosh, I mean, I must refer to that quote.
I must think about that quote at least twice a week. It is truly. I mean, there’s just it’s magic.

@20:52 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You had that you had that ready right there. And that is that is in you. I can see it.
Can you share it with our listeners again, please.

@21:01 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Yes, absolutely. So between stimulus and response, there is space. And in that space lies our ability to choose our response.
And in our choice lies our freedom and our growth.

@21:16 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You talked about having conversations about conversations. I feel like the people I look up to, people I call mentors have the ability to create a tiny space after the end of what someone else says before they begin.
And I think there’s a universal theme as you mentioned earlier in society where we think we need to just respond so quickly, which is you have that stimulus happens, which is what someone else is saying.
And then boom, we just respond without a lot of thought. And gosh, how many times has that actually gotten me in trouble in my life, let alone come out not as.
But Lee, maybe as I mentioned, am I following your thread right here?

@22:05 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
So much so. Yes, there’s yes, absolutely. 100%. And there’s so many ways in which we can think about apply and honor, but that that wisdom and what you’re talking about here is just so relevant.
You know, and I’m thinking about as you say, that what pops into my mind is just the way in which we are habituated and conditioned through the educational system.
Right. We are trained to have the right answer. And in our capitalist society, we are trained to have the answer be first and do it right and do it better.
And, and so, you know, that’s just what is. Am I judging? No, that’s just what it is. But naturally, they’re going to be impacts.
And so I think within many of us, there’s just that muscle memory of wanting to have the right answer, you know, because that’s how we gain acceptance, approval, and belonging.
And that is life to the brain. Right. Rejection is death to the brain. And so on a very primal.
level, we are seeking that acceptance, belonging and approval. And so we’re really quick to want to provide that value quick, to assert our value so that we can be, you know, we can be in good graces with others.
But honestly, it just works against us. You know, because when we jump right in and don’t give it space, essentially, what we’re saying is what I have to say is more important than what you have to say.
And yeah, it’s just, boy, there’s just, there’s so much in this, so much in this.

@23:33 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Mathematician background and then masters in transpersonal psychology, you’ve, I hear your thoughts connecting. I don’t know if they’re linear for me.
I thought I was good in math until, you know, second year calculus in university, then I realized maybe, maybe I wasn’t.
I thought I was great at it until that. So I don’t know if these equations for you are linear, but they, but there are pieces together, you know, like rejection.
It is rejection equals the death to the brain. And our life is the sum total of the choices we make.

@24:05 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Do you notice yourself making those? Oh, all the time. Yeah, well, and it’s funny because it’s not, it’s, I don’t know if I have words to describe though how I’m able to, how I grok information.
And it’s, you know, the beautiful thing about having studied pure mathematics is, you know, people think that, oh, it’s your really good at arithmetic.
You know, and it’s so funny. We’ll be out to dinner and with friends and they’re like, oh, Amy, you do, what’s the tip?
And I’m like, I don’t know. Get a calculator.

@24:34 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
I’m not a red medit.

@24:36 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Right. It’s, it’s, it’s quite a different study, right? Where you’re taking large sets of data, seemingly abstract and disparate data and you’re making sense of it, finding patterns and then essentially finding meaning within the information itself.
And so that really is an art and it’s a science. And for me, I can, it’s, it’s like. I feel like there’s always a part of me that’s really zoomed out in conversation and super present with what is.
And in a zoomed out perspective, I see how it all totally connects. And so interestingly, you know, because a lot of people say, gosh, I mean, this is a fascinating, you studied math, but then you did transpersonal psychology.
You do a transformational leadership coaching, you do transformational coaching, but yet you’re an expert in communication and public speaking, how does that all relate?
And I’m like, how do you not see that it relates? So it’s, but it’s, but to me, I can see how it’s like, Oh, well, communication is really a symptom.
It’s an effective, you know, the relationship we have with ourselves, that deeper perceptual stuff. And, you know, the ways in which we show up in presentation and public speaking is an effective, let me so much.
And so I can, there’s just that part of me that sees it and it might not necessarily be a linear map, but it’s definitely a, it’s a map that’s coherent for sure.

@25:56 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
If you took that coherent map and you, if we focus first. second on communication by leaders. And you have noticed over your experience, either let’s go two ways.
First one is one thing leaders could do to have way more impactful communication skills, like conversations about conversations. You, I have a sense you watch conversations and you see things and you’re like, yeah, if you did that, that was awesome.
And that was very common and annoying to people. Oh, whatever. Thinking of people in my life who do, you know, do the same thing in a conversation.
And I’d probably do it too. So let me back up and ask that again. I, yeah, what is a common thing that you see that leaders to communicate, who do it really well in the conversations that they have with the people that they lead?
Oh, that do it really well.

@26:54 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Yeah. So I feel like they’re as you traverse. and climb that ladder in leadership. Two, it diverges in two directions.
And then you’ll have one in one camp and another in another camp. And the ones that do it really well and the ones that are really lacking in that ability, here’s the difference, is the ones that do it really well.
Essentially, what they have done is they have continued along the path, they have made it important and they continue to ensure that the impact that they’re having on others is congruent with the intention they hold.
That they have awareness of the impact that they are having and they bring that into the equation of effective communication.
This is so important because that signals trust and safety. And that trust in my book, that is, well, more figuratively than literally, is truly the ultimate currency.
And we don’t talk about it that way, we don’t think about it that way, we kind of take it for granted, but the truth is we can’t get anything done when there is no trust.
And there’s so much to say about that topic, but I’ll put a pin in that. But for the ones that do it really, really well, it’s essentially that they are aware of their impact and they essentially are doing what they can to instill that sense of safety.
And I don’t mean safety like because others are thinking they’re going to chase after them with knives, but it’s that feeling of like, wow, I can tell you something without fear of negative consequence or punishment or belittling or judgment.
I mean, that is such that that is everything. So that’s the one camp, the other camp. Right, and I really do mean a divergence because I kind of feel like there’s really, you’re either in or you’re out.
So what happens for a lot of individuals, a lot of leaders is as they climb that ladder, what happens is that there’s a part of them that believes that the reason that they are so successful is due to their thinking.
And because of their mindset and their perspective. And so they put all their eggs in the, oh, it’s because of my thinking.
It’s because of my way of being. And as they climb that ladder, they focus more and more and more on their own intention and less and less and less on the impact that they’re having an.
as they climb that ladder, what happens is they think that they are, you know, they are the best thing since life spread because of the decisions they make, their, their discerning ability, their lead, their management, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it’s exactly when they are completely unaware of their impact and they’re shutting people down around them, that there is such a huge opportunity for transformation and growth.
And I kind of feel like you’re really not in the middle. You either are aware you’re not. And honor it or you don’t.
And it’s not that these people on the second track I’m talking about don’t want to, they just forgot that it was important.
And now it’s become a blind spot.

@29:40 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Oh, man. So the tagline of leading with curiosity is command and control leadership is dead, which I know it’s not.
It just needs to be. And as I heard you describing those two camps, those who believe it needs to be dead are aware of the impact that they have on the others.
Yeah. On others. The other camp on the other side of this line I just drew on my pages, maybe on often unintentionally, they are unaware of the impact they are having on others.
Yeah. And you described through trust and safety, you described psychological safety really well. And if people are seeing that word all the time on LinkedIn, they’re like, what is that about?
It is simply that someone can speak up in a meeting and have their voice heard without fear of judgment belittling all the things that you just said.
So that’s that, right? And not do I trust you’ll get to work on time. Do I trust while we’re at work together or once I’m gone that you’re not talking badly about me behind my back, you’re not poisoning the well.

@30:46 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Can I be me?

@30:48 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Can I have my own ideas?

@30:50 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Yeah. And it’s so, you know, and it sounds so obvious and simple, but you know, it’s for us to thrive.
So I’ll just make it if it’s okay. to break this down really quick. It’s because I just find this so fascinating.
You know, our brain, our brain stem, our body, all of it together, you know, it’s just, it’s truly a miraculous mystery to me, just how it is that we just exist.
It’s so, it’s so cool. And the brain itself, I just feel like, is the most mysterious and amazing entity in the universe.
Now, this brain and brain stem and body, one of its primary jobs is to keep you alive. Right, so the brain is always gonna look out for safety and on a non-conscious level, not on an awareness level, not on the normal waking level, but just it’s always running.
And so your brain’s always looking out for safety and the brain can’t differentiate between environmental threats and social threats.
And so you’re like, wait a minute, how is that the case? Well, you know, if you think of, when I alluded to the fact that rejection is death to the brain, I mean, that’s actually true.
Because if you think about it when a human’s born, they are completely underdeveloped and their survival brain dominant. Right, the prefrontal cortex doesn’t…
THEY COME TO M lowest, start developing until adolescence and not fully farmed until you’re mid 20s. So you’re neurologically underdeveloped and you’re completely helpless.
So to the brain, the brain knows, hey, I gotta stay alive, but wait, food water shelter, yeah, that’ll come if mom or dad buy in.
So therefore, life is acceptance and buy in an approval. I get that, I’m golden. And so to the brain, the brain automatically immediately knows that therefore, rejection is death to the brain.
And so we have a wiring within us from the moment we are born to the day that we die to avoid rejection like we avoid the plague.
That’s why we’re so afraid of speaking in public. We’re so afraid of judgment. We’re so afraid of failure. All of the things, the ways in which we hold ourselves back largely can map to that fear of not being seen in a favorable light.
Why? Because that’s not being included. And that’s like rejection. And that’s like death. And rejection itself as an experience Register’s list.
literally as physical pain.

@33:01 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
It registers in what’s called the pain matrix.

@33:04 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
And so that’s why we talk about it in the way that we do. So like, for example, do you remember your first real heartbreak in high school or college?

@33:12 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yes. Got it. Yeah.

@33:14 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
And then you’re like, and you remember, and you’re like the first real one, right? When you were really in love and you were like, Oh my gosh, I’m going to marry this person.
And then, and then it doesn’t work out. And then you’re like, Oh my God, I’m dying.

@33:27 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You remember that?

@33:29 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Yeah. So the brain really thought you were dying. I mean, how do we talk about it? Oh my God, it hurts.
It hurts. And so when we don’t get the job offer, when we weren’t included in the meeting, when it we literally it hurts because it does hurt to the brain.
Now, why am I sharing this? Because this is running in the background all the time, all the time. And so now you have to ask, well, how is rejection felt?
Hmm. Well, it’s not as overt as, you know, my spouse not letting me in the house when I get home from work.

@34:00 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You know, it’s not like that.

@34:01 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
It’s really, it’s felt in communication. It’s felt in the ways in which we interact with one another. It’s in our facial expressions.
It’s in our tone of voice. It’s in our word choice. It’s in it’s in a lot of our interaction dynamics.
And so when we recognize that life to the brain really is the brain signaling for safety and and and and and asserting, yes, I am safe by these three ways.
One, I am safe. Two, I belong and three, I am seen because that’s the way the brain is constantly looking for safety.
It’s constantly asking, am I safe? Do I need to protect myself? Am I safe right now? Am I safe?
And it’s not so much from sharp knives. It’s it’s image status and reputation. The second question is, do I belong?
Do I fit in? Am I a part of this group here? So that that’s that’s that need to be a part of a we.
And then the third is, am I being seen? Am I being acknowledged and valued and heard and appreciated the value that the eye makes up the we so they all kind of work.
together. So as you’re navigating, if any one of these toggles to know, that’s when we get triggered.

@35:05 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
And that’s when we feel danger. Wow. As I heard you described safety belonging and being seen, I just pictured the coaches listening to this podcast, right?
The trained coaches who know that’s exactly what we need to do for our clients to create a container where they feel safe, belong, where they feel seen, heard and understood.
Yeah. And then there’s the leaders, these tactical, tangible behaviors that influence that perception of impact, like how I impact others as a leader.
Those are three things to keep in the back of the brain there. For the leaders listening, do the people on my team feel safe like they belong here and that they’re seen?
Doesn’t mean all of their ideas will be voted on unanimously. unanimously at any time it has nothing to do with that.
It’s that they can share and contribute those. Yeah, 100%.

@36:07 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
100%. That’s exactly right. And then that’s what we need to tie together. So being aware of one’s impact, you know, if we really want to supercharge that, it’s, yes, it’s intending to be aware, but it’s really checking for are these three things.
Can I say that in the affirmative? And if that’s the case, we’re golden. Yeah, that’s exactly right.

@36:30 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
I’m going to challenge the listeners to right now to think about their unintended diminishing behavior. What is it that they are doing?
Unintentionally, that is diminishing that culture of safety belonging and being seen. And my hunch, as I think about everything that you’ve shared, it’s likely through survival that other camp that you described of people.
Climbing the ladder and thinking that their thoughts and ideas are becoming more and more important and that’s what got them there.
I connected back to a previous episode, Ken wisdom be taught in the most profound line in that was the day.
That we accept that we know almost nothing about anything only then are we truly free. Yes, if a leader can say, you know what?
Like open their arms instead of get out their elbows, right? I haven’t maybe I’ve had to fight my way here, but now that I’m here, what if I like open my hands to the team instead of, you know, kept the door locked or kept my elbows sharp.
That the impact that we can have on people that we lead. Where do we need to take this conversation to tie a bow around everything that you’ve shared with our listeners today?

@37:50 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Oh my gosh, there’s so many there’s so many directions that could take this. It’s, you know, it’s. I don’t know, what are you feeling, Nathan?

@38:04 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
I’m feeling really lucky to have had the conversation without getting too tactical and telling everybody where they can find the book because we’re going to get to that in a second.
When you think about the work that you’re doing and you think about the lives that you’re going to impact by people reading your book, what does it mean to you?

@38:31 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Oh, beautiful question. Well, it means I’m truly living my purpose.

@38:38 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Okay.

@38:39 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Yeah. I wrote this book because I had to. I wrote it because I knew it was going to help.
And this is going to sound either lame or corny or woo-woo, but really early on as a young kid.
Okay. I knew, I didn’t have words for it, but I got, I knew I was here to raise the, just raise the thinking, raise the consciousness of humanity to help them come back to truth, help them come back to self love to just to truth in general to raise that vibration.
I knew that. I’ve always known that. And, you know, really, this book is an expression of doing that. And the great, and it just so heartwarming when I get that reassurance when folks reach out, strangers reach out.
I mean, I’m at the most amazing, beautiful notes and requests saying, Oh my gosh, this, this, this changed me, this profoundly, this helped profound.
And that, that just means the world to me. And you know, just, I’ll say the last thing about this.
One of the biggest reasons, one of the biggest things was really important to me was, you know, like you, hundreds of Congress.
I mean, at this point, it’s thousands, thousands of conversations. And I have, when I started out as a life coach and I’m coaching with people and friends, and it grows and it progresses in the most amazing ways.
And I’ve hit the entire spectrum. I kid you not from friends to college students, maybe even high school students, drug and rehab patients.
But although, I mean, all celebrities, athletes, you name it. But now leaders, and so across that entire spectrum, this book applies.
And what was really important was that at folks on every level, at any point in life, can say, wow, I’m not alone.
Yes, oh my gosh, even the most successful founders of the biggest companies or most amazing startups, they do this too, right?
Because that, just to know that we are not alone in our humanity, is such, it’s just healing in and of itself.
And so I really want to. to dispel this myth that, you know, you get to a certain level of success, you quote, unquote, make it, which nobody ever feels like they do.
But let’s say, you know, that that idea that, oh, I’m going to be free of all of my crappy inner dialogue.
I’m going to be free of my fears. I’m going to be free of my longings. And I say, nope, the game just, you know, when you get to that next level.
And but it’s completely universal, whether you’re a CEO or you are a new college graduate, you name it. And so that’s what was really important for me to communicate out to folks.
That you’re not alone. You are not alone. And we are all in this together.

@41:42 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Amy, for those watching on our Leading with Curiosity YouTube channel, why don’t you just hold up that book and let us let listeners know where they can, can find you find it.

@41:53 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
Absolutely. So you can find me at my website, which is always on purpose.com. Lots of information there. books there as well.
And you know, the book is available where all books are sold. So you can request it anywhere. Amazon is probably a great choice.
There is the audible, I got to narrate, which was super fun.

@42:12 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah. So I did, I narrate it, which is awesome.

@42:15 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
So that’s available. And if you want to, you want to stay in touch, I’m on LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn.
Amy, Lisa Wong. Yeah, I’m not a big Instagram fan. I have an account. I just don’t use it. So you can find me.
But you’ve given us lots of great, simple ways where leaders live anyways.

@42:36 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah. Yeah. Let’s just let’s just let’s just live where leaders live on LinkedIn. That works. That works. Such a pleasure.
I wish you all the success.

@42:45 – Amy Wong (alwaysonpurpose.com)
And I’ve been really impacted by our conversation. And I hope our listeners have to. Thank you, Nate.