Ep.37 – Widen Your Vision to Narrow Your Focus. Guest Tony Martignetti.

Tony Martinetti, welcome to Leading with Curiosity.

@12:09 – Tony Martignetti
Well, thank you so much. I’m looking forward to being here.

@12:13 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You know what? So here we are two PCC coaches with the International Coach Federation and two podcast hosts. Why don’t we jump in telling listeners a little bit about your podcast and we’ll go from there.

@12:27 – Tony Martignetti
Sounds great. I’m thrilled to be here. And I’m looking forward to sharing a little bit about the podcast. My podcast is called The Virtual Campfire.
And the whole idea behind the campfire was this concept of people don’t just arrive making an impact in the world.
There’s a story that brought them there, a journey. And on the show, I bring people on that share their flash points is what I call it.
These points in their journey that have ignited their gifts into the world. world. And when I really have found along this path of doing this, I’ve interviewed now over 200 people, which is pretty wild, that there’s these really intimate moments we create when they sit by the this virtual campfire and share those little moments where people have realized that, you know, I can’t go on with life the way it was, or there’s these moments when they realize that they, their life has to shift in a different direction.
And those that’s what really reveals who we truly are. And at the crux of all of this is the sense that when you really uncover that past and understand it at a deeper level, you can use it as fuel to propel you forward.
And I’ve been on such a journey myself in being the host, but also just being part of the experience.
So, wow.

@13:54 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
And so 200 conversations around the virtual campfire has led you to your second book. coming book, Campfire Lessons, using story to propel us forward.
Yeah, what do you want to share about some of those highlights that you’ve had in those conversations that have led to putting it into print?

@14:13 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, so part of it was really the sense of there were a few key categories really, 10 lessons that I compiled through all these conversations.
There’s probably more, but there were 10 key lessons. And so what I wanted to do was put those on to print and you really share with people, you know, here are some powerful ways for you to look at your life and maybe collect your own stories based on these 10 lessons.
But it’s backed up by these beautiful, really inspiring individuals and their deep intimate conversations that we’ve shared with each other that I bring into each lesson.
So at this point, it’s about 50 or so people who I’m putting in. into the book, I probably would be more when I’m done writing it.
But it’s really powerful. And some of these moments as I’m going to revisit them have really created this moment for me to see them again and experience that touching moment again.
It’s really amazing.

@15:19 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Fantastic. Wow. What a great experience sharing that with with so many great guests. You mentioned flash points and I know you have over two decades in business and an MBA.
What do you want to share about that flashpointing for you that shifted things into this leadership space and your coaching journey?

@15:39 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, there are a couple flash points along the way. I mean, and part of them for me, one big flashpoint was this realization that I was putting myself in a box and saying that I had to be a certain way.
I had to show up a certain way and I had to break free from that. And it was burning me out.
I actually got to this place where I felt like I needed to be the analytical finance strategy person in the industry.
And it was in biotech, but I realized there was something missing about that. And it wasn’t really who I was.
And it was burning me out to the point where I just started to lose my sense of flavor for life.
And slowly but surely I started to claw myself out of that dark point in life and saw that there was more to me that I needed to connect with and to really be able to express.
I often talk about this sense of finding that spark and then turning it that spark into a fire. And that’s what I needed to do in my life.
I had to create the fire that was going to create a bigger part of what I was supposed to do in my life.

@16:56 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Wow. Wow. Okay. So financial analyst though in bio I would say not to dismiss that for the listeners. This guy Tony is capable of conceptualizing around big ideas because there’s nothing simple about what you described in that former life.
Wow. So big change then into the coaching world. And we have, we’ve considered here exploring this idea of change, which is something that you talk to leaders about.
And what piqued my interest, change management and teams and leaders dealing with change. Or some people, and me sometimes it’s trying to connect what that really means for the impact of a team that moves it from buzzword and today’s leadership society to really bringing meaning to it, maybe your own story.
Is it good metaphor for that? So my question then. When you think about change being something that you’re passionate about helping leaders navigate, where does that story?

@18:00 – Tony Martignetti
very often go for you. What’s important to you about that? Yeah, I mean, I think the most important part of this journey of change is the sense of, being able to understand the emotional journey of the change.
That it’s not something that is just something you do on paper or something that is, you just do it and you look at all of the the repercussions later on.
All change happens with people involved. And since we’re all humans and we have different ways of reacting to change, we have to connect.
So one of the most important aspects of change is to understand how are we connecting as leaders to the people, if you’re leading change, if you’re connecting to people, how are you ensuring that they understand why are we doing this?
What is the thing that we’re leading into? That vision of where we’re going and also being honest about the potential challenges along the way.
You’re taking them on it, you’re taking a story and you’re basically telling them a story about where you want to go and what are the potential pitfalls along the way and why it’s important that they are on this quest with you.
But you’re also giving them confidence and motivation along that way to say here’s why it’s important to go in this direction.

@19:30 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Right, so it’s about making sure that that vision is clear then.

@19:34 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

@19:35 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Where we’re headed, why we’re headed and then what needs to happen. Am I reading your right?

@19:43 – Tony Martignetti
100%. Having that clear vision but also making sure that you are enlisting them in that process and ensuring that they’re part of this, that they’re buying to this process is just as important as them understanding the vision.
that you want them to come along and also see that there’s going to be stops and pivots along the way.
But what you’re trying to paint them is something that they can connect to. And I think that’s the key thing.

@20:15 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah. Yeah. Involving people in the process, leadership always comes back to that. You know, the tagline of this podcast is command and control leadership is dead.
I know it’s not, but it needs to be. And, and, and, yeah, so that idea of bringing them on that journey and helping them decide some of those, some of those roadside stands, you’re going to hit and some of those detours that you’re going to take or, and helping craft that, that vision together.

@20:42 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah. And I think this connects with also a sense of giving people the empowerment to challenge along the way.
You know, hey, when you see something that’s not working according to plan or things that aren’t going well, that you’re empowered to speak up and say, Hey, I’m noticing something.
You know, hey, have we thought about this? Are we ensuring that this has been checked on this? Or I’m not feeling good about this particular aspect.
Can we stop for a moment and check on that? You know, there’s a sense of you can’t just, you know, move a million miles an hour towards that end goal and not pause along the way and say, you know, how are we doing?
What is, you know, what’s to a pulse check? You have to make sure that your, your followers, if you will, are along for the journey because that’s not going to help you if you’re the only one at the end of the day moving towards that path.

@21:42 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Right. You know, I often talk with leaders about the fact that not everything is a democracy all the time.
We can’t have unanimous decision all the time. Leaders still need needs to a certain point to set the vision.
And there’s lots of opportunity for collaboration and check-in points.

@21:59 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

@22:00 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah, along the way.

@22:01 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah. Yeah. And I’m going to, I don’t want to pause for a second here because I think what you just brought up is something that I was recently revisiting with, you know, you talked about the book briefly recently.
The conversation I had with one of the leaders that I interviewed about horse leadership. Now, horse leadership, horses, they lead from behind.
And what’s interesting about leading from behind is this sense of allowing the people who go ahead to know that you’re there to know that you’re, you’re kind of moving them forward, you moving the herd forward, without them even knowing that you’re there.
They’ll have to be in front to lead. But what they do need to do is set a course and allow other people to feel their presence and know that they’ve got their back as they move forward.
And this knowledge about horse leadership is something that I learned when I visited. this ranch in Santa, Santa Fe, New Mexico, but you can also learn it in many from places.
But there’s this power and knowledge of, of understanding, um, leading from behind that, really can change the way we show up as leaders.
Um, how can you ensure that other people know you’re there and your data to support them on this journey of going forward?

@23:23 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Just picturing these beautiful scenes from the show Yellowstone or pick your own cowboy movie, right? But that idea of leading from behind and also from the side to help people know where the guardrails are, right?
Right. Like to keep us.

@23:37 – Tony Martignetti
Exactly.

@23:38 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
To keep us in maybe not one lane, but maybe a couple and avoiding, you know, going into the ongoing traffic or in the case of, uh, of the ranch analogy or over a cliff, perhaps.

@23:51 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

@23:52 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah. Yeah. That’s powerful. And I read something from you about widening the vision and narrowing the focus.

@24:00 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, yeah.

@24:01 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Tell me, tell me what the narrowing the focus part.

@24:04 – Tony Martignetti
We’ve just described this widening vision. Yeah, I mean, this is at the crux of a lot of the work I do.
And this is pretty remarkable, considering the fact that I came from a world of, you know, trying to be so analytically focused.
One of the things I realized is my big gift is to get people to see possibilities and to see a wider range of things.
And so that expand your vision is the starting point. And, you know, when people feel stuck, there’s a need to get more expansive, see what possibilities are out there.
So that they’re not just looking at that wall and saying, this is the only thing, the only options available to me is right now in front of me.
But once you do have that expansiveness, you need to also find out, okay, what’s right for me now? What can I try next?
Because if you feel overwhelmed with all the options, I move forward. So you have to narrow it down. So now.
narrow your ability to focus on the thing that’s in front of you. And that might be even an imperfect action that you’re going to take, but it’s an action.
Cause if you’re too expansive and you’re just thinking so large, that’s not really taking action. So now you focus is really about thinking, what is that next step I’m willing to take that will move me in line with the thing that I think is the next possible move.

@25:28 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Okay, I like your, your description of that, how to almost slow down in the beginning to widen the focus, maybe get to a higher elevation to see what the, what possibilities are.
When you think about your own story of being feel feeling like you put yourself in a box and having to show up a certain way in your former career, uh, what I can imagine the walls of that box closing in on you a little bit.

@25:56 – Tony Martignetti
And then something, something got you out of it.

@26:00 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
to your own situation that’s led you to the journey that you’re on right now.

@26:04 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, I mean, I love that question because there’s something about that, which is to say that, you know, to borrow from, because Walt Whitman, who said, you know, we contain multitudes and I started to see that I was only defining myself based on this, you know, I’m a finance professional or I am, you know, this and the reality I had to like think, well, wait a minute, I have a, when I was a child, I was an artist and I am also an adventurer.
I love, you know, doing, going out and traveling the world and doing things like that. And I love having deep conversations and exploring people’s understanding of the world.
And so I started to see these things. I’m like, why am I not using some of these other interests and other parts of who I am in my day to day life?
And if I did that, I wonder what would happen. And in fact, this is where Um, my tagline of, of my businesses, inspiration through honest conversations.
I started to have more honest conversations with myself about who I really am. You know, what are the things that make me who I am?
And through that, I started to see, wow, I contain a lot more than just. One thing. Um, and I think all of us need to get expansive.
What else do I contain? And how can I use that to become a broader aspect of who I, who I really could be?
And then once I do that, I could, I could start to play with that. Maybe, um, maybe there’s a side gig that I need to explore or maybe it’s about bringing some of that into my existing work.
So that I feel more connected to that.

@27:51 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
When you described what you went through from biotech industry, financial analyst, and you widened your vision.

@27:58 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

@28:00 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
You thought about who else you are. You’re an adventurer. Who you were as a child as an artist. Yeah.
The word values came to mind to me that, and would I be right in thinking an assumption? There was a bit of a values conflict of what you were spending a lot of your time doing versus what you really, who you really are.

@28:21 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, I mean, you’re right on the money. And this is one of those things that I often do is I always start my conversations with people when I get to know them.
To understand what is it that you truly value because everything comes back to, are we aligned with our values?
And if we’re not, then there’s usually something that’s not right in this moment. Even if like you on the outside seem to be knocking it out of the park, there’s still something might be missing because you’re not aligned with who you truly are.
And how amazing is that when you do figure that out? Because then you’re feeling even more alive. more connected when you have that sense of, oh yeah, the value of X is not really being honored.
Yeah.

@29:11 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
If we stayed with the metaphors here and leading from behind in this beautiful scene of New Mexico and this ranch here on, but this idea of widening the vision, it’s finding that higher ground to take a look around.
And what you saw was you saw your rear view who you were as a kid. Yeah. You saw possibility and adventure.
And then that’s kind of one of those stops along the way that you were describing with change management too is reassessing wherever we come from, what are our options now, narrow the focus on where we’re headed?

@29:45 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, yeah, you’re 100%. Yeah. I think that’s one of the steps and I know you, I’m not sure if you were done saying what you’re gonna say, but I’ll just jump in here for a moment to say, that image that you created is really connected to the sense of the image.
of like we need to pause and give some space to looking around and saying, what am I missing in the picture that I’m currently looking at that might need more perspective?

@30:12 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Yeah. Why do you focus leading from behind, sorry, the white individual? This is great stuff. And we’re using story too, right?
So we’re using story and metaphor. Where does that come into leadership and change and getting the right people on the bus?
Or let’s see the metaphor, getting the right people on the journey and moving the horses and being able to help people see clearly through metaphor what lies ahead.

@30:53 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, I love that you share this because there’s a sense of not just the fact that, okay, well, we’re wired for story.
We’ve you’ve heard before that humans are wired for stories and they understand things through story, but even more powerfully, everything happens through communication conversation is the cornerstone of all things that if you want to make a change, you have to have a conversation.
And ultimately, I think the most important thing we can understand is, is how can we move people forward. And so, most powerfully, it’s through connecting with them on a visceral level.
And that visceral level could be through a metaphor that they understand. So the stories are, or, you know, a story that they understand.
Let’s say we choose Star Wars, you know, everyone knows the Star Wars story, even if you haven’t been a big fan of the movie, you kind of generally understand it.
And like when you say it’s like Luke Skywalker or Princess Leia, or it’s like this, and their journey to, you know,
So overcoming the death star would have you. Then people understand that’s what we’re doing. We’re fighting the death star.

@32:06 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
All right. Now your first book climbing the right mountain. It’s a metaphor also getting up to the top and seeing getting that wider vision, but also before you embark on that journey, making sure that you are on the right mountain.
What connection do you want to make to our conversation today and timing the right mountain?

@32:28 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah. Yeah. And I think I’ll just go a little deeper into what that meant for me and for others is that, you know, climbing the right mountain, sometimes we get to the top and we realize we don’t necessarily like the view.
And it’s time to maybe consider a different mountain. And what often happens is what had us climbing that mountain in the first place we’ve lost sight of.
Um, so we need to reconnect with what’s our definition of success? And is it our own definition of success or was it defined by somebody else?
And therefore we started applying a mountain that was not meant for us. So that metaphor is really powerful, but I think it’s also to tell people that it’s never too late to choose to different, a different climb.
Or if you’re on a mountain, maybe it’s time to pause, take a break for a moment and just say, okay, what do I want for myself?
Where do I really want to go? Am I on the right path? There’s some things you can do to check in with yourself to ensure that you can do the right things.
And it does not require you to leave your job. Not necessarily. It doesn’t require you to start a new company or anything like that.
It’s just, it’s about reframing your experience.

@33:44 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
We’re wired for conversations. You’ve said I am, I am. I’m compelled to think that none of this is done well over Slack or Microsoft Teams messages, right?
These messages, right? these check-ins along the way seem like such an important element. What do you think leaders that you work with around change with their teams often miss?

@34:11 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, yeah, it’s a good question. And I think one of the things that they miss is how important those conversations that can have what their employees are.
Sometimes they will say, or one on ones were rescheduled or canceled because we didn’t have time or there was other priorities or there was nothing to talk about.
Well, I think the one thing I would say is even if there’s nothing to talk about, find time for that connection, even if it means digging into something even more bigger picture or just to understand them more.
And I’m working on this talk that I’m doing a TED talk this summer around creating deeper connection with people in the workplace.
And one of the most important things you can do is is really find ways to bring more of who you are into the workplace.
And I don’t mean that in an obnoxious way, like, oh, just continue to bring these random facts. But it’s more about, what do people not know about you that would be an interesting connection that they could create?
Maybe it’s an outside hobby or things that would get people to understand you on a different level. And that’s one of the things that I’ve learned from the people who I’ve worked with as the leaders, they don’t share themselves.

@35:33 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
They’re almost afraid to.

@35:36 – Tony Martignetti
And when they do, surprising things happen. They create a bond with their employees that goes beyond just simple things.
They get to have this conversation that is, hey, I see you as a human, not just an employee boss relationship.

@35:59 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
I have a client brief. know who is considering how to best share themselves with their team in a way that’s comfortable with.
They currently aren’t. In our pre-interview, I asked you what’s the most important question that I can ask you. And you said, what would people be surprised to find out about you?

@36:18 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah.

@36:19 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Tony, what would people be surprised to find out about you?

@36:22 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, well, I would say that we shared a lot of different things that people might be surprised about. But that I climb mountains.
I’ve actually climbed Kilimanjaro this summer. And it was one of the situations where, you know, I had never climbed a mountain that tall ever.
And it was just something I set my intentions to a year ago, a year before I did it. And I just made it happen.
So it’s kind of to say that like, you don’t have to be the most physically fit person. You don’t have to be the the most like anything.
But if you have a vision or you have a connection to something that you want to accomplish, almost anything can be done.
You just have to put yourself in that place of, I’m going to do this. And this is how once I had that intention, anything’s possible.

@37:17 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
For those watching on YouTube, my finger is pointing at my wife and I standing over top of every space camp with Everest in the background.

@37:25 – Tony Martignetti
So there’s another thing we have in common, Tony.

@37:27 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
I know that feeling, geez. Thanks for sharing that. We’re moving towards a wrap up here. What’s in the work that you’re doing now and the transition that you made for yourself?
What’s been the most inspiring part of your journey for yourself in redefining what success looked like to you?

@37:54 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I’m going to talk about metrics that I… I measured myself by and I think that’s what really has been a real change for me.
Because when I first started to move in this direction of, of starting a business, because it is a business, you know, it’s really hard to, to just call this a calling.
Because it is a, you know, it’s a calling for me as well. But if you just focus on the numbers, if you just focus on the metrics of, of, you know, how many sales I bring in last week or how many of this, then it can be really daunting because the world of being an entrepreneur is like a rollercoaster ride.
You’re up, you’re down, you’re sideways and you don’t know which, which wave to catch along that, that journey. But one of the things that I started to, to lean into, what are the metrics that really mean a lot to me?
And I think of those moments of courage, like how many moments of courage have I embraced along the past year?
put me on the edge of my seat and had me feeling like, who am I to be doing this?
Those are the moments that I remember and I document them. So it’s a metric. The other one is the, you know, I jokingly call it the infinite, the infinite return on rest, the IRR, which is an old, you know, IRR is usually a financial metric, but the infinite return on rest.
So if I have moments of rest along my journey, that I can look back to and say, how often am I resting?
And sometimes I don’t do so well on that. So I see that as a big metric. One last metric I will say is the power of those conversations that have changed my life along this journey.
Being in a moment with a client or a mentor or anybody anybody who has really had a conversation and it’s been just a moment that I.
I feel like I want to document and say this conversation was worth the price of admission. I documented it and say I had three of those conversations this week and this is worth it.
It makes my journey worth it.

@40:14 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
I’d like that. I’ve been starting to follow current CEO of Microsoft and he acknowledges a daily journal of what have I initiated today?
What have I learned and who have I helped and your metrics sound in line with that. The impact that we have is not always financial.
It’s not always closing the deal and in fact, yeah, that’s not why we get into this work. It’s a follow-up, Tony.

@40:41 – Tony Martignetti
Yeah, it’s a follow-up.

@40:43 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
Exactly, exactly. One leads to the other. It’s been such a pleasure talking with you today, Tony. I hope those leaders dealing with change, those people trying to understand the use of metaphor, the ability to lead from behind into…
Why didn’t the vision, why don’t we narrow the focus? Those have been so helpful. Where can people that follow first your podcast and you as a coach?

@41:11 – Tony Martignetti
Of course, and I’ll first of all say, thank you so much. This has been an enjoyable conversation, so I’m thrilled to be here.
So the best place to find me is my website is inspiredpurposecoach.com. And there you can also find my podcasts.
There’s a tab there for the virtual campfire. The virtual campfire is available on any podcasting channel. Anywhere you listen to podcasts, so feel free to find it there.
And you can also find me on LinkedIn or anywhere else that on social media channels, most of them I’m located there.
But feel free to reach out. I’m always up for a conversation. And as I said, this is one of the things that I really truly enjoy.

@41:56 – Nate Leslie (nateleslie.ca)
So awesome. From me and Vancouver to you near Boston, Tony has been a pleasure.